10 episodes into podcasting, here are our thoughts

>> Cole: While a lot may go into launching whatever digital marketing effort you're doing, you know, whether it be a blog, whether it be a podcast or a website, launching is not the end of the journey. That's not the, you know, you've reach the finish line. It's, honestly, it's just beginning, and that's kind of where we're at.

>> Virgil: So today, I think, you were saying that we have something special to talk about, maybe.

>> Cole: Yeah. So we have reached episode 10. And that is significant because in season 1-

>> Virgil: I know exactly where you're going with this. Yep. Yeah. Well, and in even fairness, not only are we reaching 10, but, we're reaching 10 in a fraction of the time that it took me to reach nine. I think I reached nine in like, nine and a half episode. Or, I'm sorry, one and a half years. I think it took a year and a half.

>> Cole: Yeah.

>> Virgil: Took me to make nine episodes.

>> Cole: Yeah. That's a milestone on its own. Just the consistency with which we've uploaded episodes.

>> Virgil: It's amazing how much better it goes when I'm the one who doesn't have to ask questions and organize that stuff. So thank you, Cole. That means a lot. But, yeah, episode 10, pretty awesome. Yeah.

>> Cole: And, you know, a lot went into, making season two happen. And we thank everyone who's tuned in to, the podcast for this season. but that kind of gets us into the theme of this week's episode, which is, you know, while a lot may go into launching whatever digital marketing effort you're doing, you know, whether it be a blog, whether it be a podcast or a website, launching is not the end of the journey. That's not the, you know, you've reached the finish line. It's honestly, it's just beginning. And that's kind of where we're at. Realizing-

>> Virgil: Yeah, I know you and I were talking about it, that, you know, it's so funny because it takes so much effort to get anything going. I mean, you know, like you said, like a podcast or a blog or a new website or, you know, a corporate intranet or whatever it is like that. There's so much energy... after you get done launching it, the first thing you want to do is take, like, you know, at least six months off and not talk to people and not hear anything about it. But the reality is, is that that's really when the work starts. And honestly, it's where most organizations fail is because they launch some new initiative, and there's still this mentality in the Internet world that if, you build it, they will come. And we definitely know that's not true. Even if we have outstanding content like we do.

>> Cole: Right.

>> Virgil: I mean, an amazing host, and co host like we do. You know, that doesn't necessarily

>> Cole: And occasionally Chad. 

>> Virgil: Yeah and an occasional Chad. Yep. An occasional Chad, and that adds. I mean, I think we get a, 20% boost anytime we add the Chad  into these conversations.

>> Cole: More than that.

>> Virgil: So that's kind of important. Yeah, yeah. From there. But I mean, you know, what you say is very true. I mean, you know, and that's about all I can say is it takes a lot of work. And, you know, and that's why you and I have kind of been taking the last month and kind of looking at things.

>> Cole: Yeah, we've been having a lot of conversations about, you know, we're almost at episode 10, where do we want to go from here? And, you know, we could, you know, just keep rolling with the same tactics, keep, rolling with the same website, keep rolling with the same intro. Um but, you know, in order for us to gain traction, we've realized there's a lot of efforts we want to make to, you know, just kind of enhance the podcast, enhance the experience for the listeners.

>> Virgil: Right well, I mean, you know, that's part of it. One of the things I love about a podcast, and something like this versus, like, you know, new website initiative, which actually, you and I are working on that as well too. But we're not going to talk about that today, 

>> Cole: We've been busy!

>> Virgil: We'll have discussion topics about that afterwards. I think right now you and I want to ignore that we're trying to get our new website done.

>> Cole: Yeah.

>> Virgil: But from that side, I mean, I think, you know, you can experiment, you can tinker in that. And we already did. I mean, you know, the first couple of episodes we had kind of a little bit more of a formal format where, you know, we kind of knew the questions up front. We were kind of giving, I don't want to say canned answers, but more canned answers. And we were having the demo in the middle, and we just kind of realized that we didn't really enjoy doing that because it wasn't very natural. It wasn't much fun for us because we felt like we were doing so much planning and then being very. Okay, Cole, thank you very much for what you said. versus being more natural, which is really what I think, you know, especially myself, when I shine is when I can just be natural. And overly opinionated.

>> Cole: Yeah.

>> Virgil: So what were some of the things we saw, Cole? I mean, you know, obviously we have six months worth of data now what we see out of that. Six or... yeah, five months.

>> Cole: Yeah, around that. Well, I mean, one of the things that stood out to us the most was we looked at the average watch times on YouTube and they kind of ended up being... well, a lot of people kind of dropped off before we actually started talking.

>> Virgil: 17 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. Ah, it's kind of funny. And for those who just listen to us, through Apple Podcast or whatever, maybe you listen to, we do have the video version, where you see it, and those that are on the video version know we have the audio version too. but yeah, it's one of those things. I mean, obviously we've seen a lot of research that says that, you know, people that engage with you on YouTube don't tend to stay through an entire episode and have a much shorter attention span than most. Um and I think that has to do with kind of our new thing about looking at YouTube Shorts and kind of some of the things there. And it's funny because, you know, we get hundreds and hundreds of views on those, you know, that are like 15 seconds long. And there's somewhat a statement on, you know, how attention span has changed so much. Um but 17 seconds with our podcast on, the video version doesn't even get through the intro. And that is in itself. So one of the things we're going to change a lot is we're going to be changing our intro starting next episode, and trying to make sure that our people really, that are listeners, really understand what the episode's about and what the podcast is all about right up front. Which is something that we kind of realized that we kind of leaned into the animation and that kind of stuff.

>> Cole: Which is cool.

>> Virgil: It's awesome, but

>> Cole: It's cool. But, you know...

>> virgil: Not really the point.

>> Cole: I think the numbers speak to the value of, you know, in the first, you know, in the first part of your podcast, you got to really establish the value for the listener. and what it's going to be about, like, what value they're going to be getting. There's, just a lot of, you know, first impression room in that intro.

>> Virgil: And again, that. That doesn't just go for podcasts. Again, you go back to websites and you go back to that kind of stuff. I mean, digital marketing is a continuous process. And, you know, if people don't visit your website and they don't really see what's in it for them right away. And it's more about you trying to say, hey, look at us. We're rah, rah, yay, yay, yay, we're so awesome. Versus saying, well, what can we actually do for you? you're gonna probably find the same thing you're gonna find, you know, 10,000 people hit your homepage, and 10 seconds later they leave it because they didn't see any value add for them. And that's kind of really what we're looking at, is we're realizing that people are hitting the podcast episode and they're not either listening or seeing that value add right up front. Like, why should I continue to stay? And so that's one of the big things we're gonna change, we're gonna change the format of the podcast just a little bit. Not really the way we do this stuff, maybe just a layout a little bit. Maybe we went a little bit too much on the graphical side, and that's just kind of a natural side effect of who we are. But, overall, I think the podcast, the meat of it, has worked very well. And the feedback that we've gotten from people has been very good. But the intro is where we're going to do that. And the great thing about analytics is now we can measure it. We already have kind of our baseline of, you know, the number of listeners we're getting on average and what happens with that and, you know, kind of how much they're listening and how engaged they are in the listen. but now we can kind of look at that and say, okay, if we start to tweak and play with some of this stuff, do we start seeing it? So if, if we give right up front, here's what you're gonna get out of this episode, do we start getting people to make it past that 17 second, mark and at least into the beginning of the podcast, and then maybe they hear our voices and they're like, oh, my God, I don't want to listen anymore. But at, least we get them that. So I think that'll be a fun future episode, will be kind of maybe another six months from now after we've done some of our tweaking, is kind of looking at the first six months versus the second six months.

>> Cole: Yeah, I think a big theme here of what we're talking about is just the importance of adapting and just paying attention to the analytics and, just how, you know, how you're. Whether it be your site or your, like, podcasts or whatever, how it's performing and looking into, like, why it's performing the way it is. And there's a lot of great tools out there to give you indications of, you know, what's, behind the performance of your, of your thing.

>> Virgil: And looking at your data well. You know, I mean, I'm still amazed how many times I run into organizations that are even very mature in the way that they look and analyze their analytics. yet they still tend to look at, like, page views and that kind of stuff and say that that somehow gives them a lot of value in knowing. Well, if somebody's hitting your page, that must mean that they're... you're getting the traffic you want, instead of looking at, you know, really more around, like, the user journey and what that really looks like, from that side, and, you know, kind of really understanding that. And, you know, again, for us, a metric in a podcast of 17 seconds is much more important than a metric of how many people actually hit the podcast. You know, it's great. I mean, you could get a million hits on your page, but if you only get two that actually view it past 17 seconds, you know, you're not necessarily going to be growing your audience.

>> Cole: And, speaking of growing your audience.

>> Virgil: Yeah, that's the other side. Oh, man.

>> Cole: Yeah. so if you are listening past 17 seconds right now, please make sure to like and subscribe and comment and do everything possible to interact with the content, because that is how we make this show possible.

>> Virgil: How about even more importantly, share with others? I mean, you know, I know some of the people listening here, and it'd be great if they shared it with some of their colleagues, people in the same industry. I mean, that is really, it's how we grow in that and we've learned, I mean, you know, throughout the years and, you know, Cole, you're a little bit newer with me, but you're definitely learning this more and more that, you know, just making your posts out on social media and announcing something doesn't necessarily get a lot of engagement these days, especially on social networks that get bombarded with tons and tons of content on a regular basis. If you don't already have an established brand that you can kind of leverage, it's really hard to kind of break that in, and kind of break through on there. 

>> Cole: Yeah, a lot more goes into... yep.

>> Virgil: So, another thing we're going to be looking at is some more creative ways of engaging social media and engaging, you know, kind of our target audience, outside of just sending out our typical social media blast.

>> Cole: Yep. Yeah, no, a lot more I'm realizing, you know, goes into the promotion and the just marketing in general of a podcast, obviously. Okay. This is, if you can't tell, this is my first time doing a podcast, but it's been getting, know, easier and easier to express, myself on the mic.

>> Virgil: Yeah, yeah. Well, that, that is in there.

>> Cole: It's fun. I like it.

>> Virgil: well, luckily for me, you know, the gift of gab has never been a problem. But, you know, going back to social media, I think the other thing is, and, and you know, you and I have talked about, and we're going to be really upping, you know, like the amount of stuff we do on YouTube shorts and, some of the things there that you seem to get a ton of engagement now. I, I don't really know. We don't really have stats on how valuable that engagement is as of yet. What, a couple months ago, I think with episode six or something was the first one you did it.

>> Cole: Yeah.

>> Virgil: And so we kind of need that, and then I know the other one and I, I know your ultimate goal and I, I still have kind of mixed feelings about it, but, you know, getting on the TikTok and doing the TikTok, I'm not going to be doing any dances nor any, you know, kind of routines that go along there. 

>> Cole: Chad will.

>> Virgil: But I do agree, I think that TikTok is a great platform to kind of get people to engage with your content. And that's probably another area. But I mean, it is. You really do have to have a strategy. And the one thing I think I realized a while ago is that, you know, and it's funny because these are the things that we preach with our customers and we do as part of our projects all the time. But it's kind of that eating your own dog food type of piece, that, we didn't really set any goals and maybe a little bit is we didn't really know what goals to set. But I think now you and I going through kind of this goal process of kind of setting goals on how we want to grow our viewership and, you know, some, some of the efforts we do, it's not only going to give us a little bit more of the light at the end of the tunnel and knowing where that stuff is, but also it is really going to help us in kind of being able to better measure. So, you know, we can't just use 17 seconds as a measure. That's a great measure. But overall, even if the people start going there, if our viewership doesn't grow, you know, then it gets harder and harder, to do that. but one of the things I'm looking to more is, we're not going to see Cole's room anymore, right? Is that. I think you kind of talked about that a little bit.

>> Cole: I was wondering if you're going to mention that. But yeah, if you can't tell I'm in my bedroom. That's my bed behind me. Kind of an odd background. But, you know, we're, we're working on giving me a green screen, so I might be in a penthouse next episode or, somewhere exciting on a beach.

>> Virgil: Yeah, we were talking Minneapolis. Yep, yep, yep. So, I mean, you know, obviously our, our podcast budget didn't cover professional studios in that. So, from there, but I mean, you know, people might say, well, are you going to do is talk about this? But hopefully, at least, you know, from what we're talking about, they understand. You know, you really have to get out of this build mentality of putting something together, whether it's a new digital marketing initiative, it's a website, you know, podcast, blog or whatever like that. You, you really have to get into the mindset that you need to not only have those goals up front, but you need to understand what is important to measure. And you know, from a podcast, obviously the big thing, the big two things to measure is one, are people listening? And two, are they listening a lot? I mean, do they need to listen to the entire episode? No, because, you know, I mean, I do a lot of things where I just search on YouTube and it takes me to just a segment of a video because I had a specific question, which is really great. But you still want to see a pattern of where people are being more engaged. You're getting more return visitors, you're getting more people to engage with more and more of the podcast. And then you're starting to see growth, of viewership and subscribers and, and, you know, comments and all that kind of stuff. and on the other side, you really have to look at it from the standpoint of, just overall how you engage with people to get them interested. And social media and doing posts is not really, always the answer. One of the things we're talking about is, you know, doing more like forums and discussion groups and that kind of stuff and not trying to push our podcast, but more interact, with those as our podcast and try and garner more interest just by people's natural curiosity. I know when I participate, in a lot of discussions, I'll just snoop and see what they're all about. If they say something meaningful. So that'll be part of our goal as well. So I think this will be a topic that we visit from time to time and just kind of talk about how our progress is going. Not about trying to toot our own horn or necessarily, necessarily put out our own flaws if nothing works, but it's more of this is kind of the process. And anybody who's been doing this for a long time knows it's a process. It's not just a simple one and done type solution.

>> Cole: Yeah. The way I see it, these especially next 10 episodes, you can almost look at them like a live case study of, you know, us experimenting with new, marketing tactics. And like, you know, when we revisit, we can show how certain tactics worked better, certain tactics didn't work as good. but I think this is a very good opportunity for, us to put those things on display.

>> Virgil: Yeah. And with you and I also working on our new website for High Monkey and really putting a lot of effort into that right now, obviously we're going to talk about a lot of things that, you know, we did, you know, with the website that are probably frustrations that a lot of other people do, you know, from, from you know, screen size targeting to, you know, more accessibility topics to, you know, just kind of, pretty versus functional and all those kind of things. So. Well, thanks for joining me again, Cole. I, I think this was a great discussion and Congrats on episode 10. Don't ever take it wrong. Cole puts a lot of work into this, and probably a lot more than I do. So, looking forward to the next 10 and making it to the first year anniversary.

>> Cole: Yep, me as well. Thanks everyone.

>> Virgil: Just a reminder, we'll be dropping new episodes every two weeks. If you enjoyed the discussion today, we would appreciate it if you hit the like button and leave us a review or comment below. And to listen to past episodes or be notified when future episodes are released, visit our website at www.discussingstupid.com and sign up for our email updates. Not only will we share when each new episode drops, but also we'll be including a ton of good content to help you in discussing stupid in your own organization. Of course, you can also follow us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or SoundCloud or really any of the other favorite podcast platforms you might use. Thanks again for joining and we'll see you next time.